Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

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Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
Hello,

My existing GPG certificate is going to expire in less than a month.
I'd like to know current best practices for obtaining a new one? In
particular I'm looking for the best protocol and strength for a
security not a performance stance. The certificate will mainly be used
for verifying and signing sent messages, and tagging git commits on
personal servers. Devices used will be Windows 10 pcs and tablets and
Android (version 10 and 11) phones and tablets.
Suggestions welcome.
Thanks.
Dave.

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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

Andreas K. Huettel-2
Hi David,

when Gentoo switched to requiring gpg-signed git commits and pushes, we put
some thought into requirements and best practices. Minus the Gentoo-specific
parts, this is probably good reading:

https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0063.html
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/
Generating_GLEP_63_based_OpenPGP_keys

Best,
Andreas

Am Donnerstag, 18. März 2021, 05:06:24 CET schrieb David Mehler via Gnupg-
users:

> Hello,
>
> My existing GPG certificate is going to expire in less than a month.
> I'd like to know current best practices for obtaining a new one? In
> particular I'm looking for the best protocol and strength for a
> security not a performance stance. The certificate will mainly be used
> for verifying and signing sent messages, and tagging git commits on
> personal servers. Devices used will be Windows 10 pcs and tablets and
> Android (version 10 and 11) phones and tablets.
> Suggestions welcome.
> Thanks.
> Dave.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

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tel. +49 151 241 67748 (mobile)
tel. +49 941 943 1618 (office)
fax +49 941 943 3196
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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
On 3/18/2021 10:21 AM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> when Gentoo switched to requiring gpg-signed git commits and pushes, we put
> some thought into requirements and best practices. Minus the Gentoo-specific
> parts, this is probably good reading:
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0063.html
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/
> Generating_GLEP_63_based_OpenPGP_keys
 >

On the pages, I get 'There is currently no text in this page. You can
search for this page title in other pages, or ...'.
Am I missing something?

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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

Andreas K. Huettel-2
https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0063.html
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Generating_GLEP_63_based_OpenPGP_keys

> On the pages, I get 'There is currently no text in this page. You can
> search for this page title in other pages, or ...'.
> Am I missing something?

Only that kmail insisted on breaking the link... let's hope it doesn't this time.

(Not every mail client implements flowing text correctly, which is why having the client insert line breaks is the safer variant for readability. However...)

--
PD Dr. Andreas K. Huettel
Institute for Experimental and Applied Physics
University of Regensburg
93040 Regensburg
Germany

tel. +49 151 241 67748 (mobile)
tel. +49 941 943 1618 (office)
fax +49 941 943 3196
e-mail [hidden email]
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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
On 3/18/2021 2:39 PM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0063.html
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Generating_GLEP_63_based_OpenPGP_keys
>

Reading the URLs given by the OP, I see that the GPG FAQ (1) talks about
a default of '2048' but in the latest (2.2.17) release of GPG it looks
like the default is now '3072':

gpg --expert --full-gen-key
Please select what kind of key you want:
    (1) RSA and RSA (default)
    (2) DSA and Elgamal
    (3) DSA (sign only)
    (4) RSA (sign only)
    (7) DSA (set your own capabilities)
    (8) RSA (set your own capabilities)
    (9) ECC and ECC
   (10) ECC (sign only)
   (11) ECC (set your own capabilities)
   (13) Existing key
   (14) Existing key from card
Your selection? 1
RSA keys may be between 1024 and 4096 bits long.
What keysize do you want? (3072)


Am I missing something?


1)  https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#no_default_of_rsa4096

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 00:06, David Mehler said:

> My existing GPG certificate is going to expire in less than a month.
> I'd like to know current best practices for obtaining a new one? In

Do you really want a new one?  Usually it is easier to prolong your key.
By default a new key has an expire data so that unused keys and those
with forgotten passphrase will eventually expire.  In general you just run

  gpg --quick-set-expire FINGERPRING EXPIREDATE

Expire dat may be something like 5y for 5 years or an explicit date like
2024-12-31.

Here is an example

  $ gpg -K A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8

  sec   ed25519 2021-03-15 [SC] [expires: 2023-03-15]
        A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
  uid           [ unknown] [hidden email]
  ssb   cv25519 2021-03-15 [E]
        989ABB95E888956DBD5D7F66C376233B98457556
 
  $ gpg --quick-set-expire A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8 4y


  $ gpg -K A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
 
  sec   ed25519 2021-03-15 [SC] [expires: 2025-03-17]
        A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
  uid           [ unknown] [hidden email]
  ssb   cv25519 2021-03-15 [E]
        989ABB95E888956DBD5D7F66C376233B98457556


Send the public key then to your peers, keyserver, web key directory, or
wherever.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
Hello,

Thanks all. I am definitely wanting a new key.

With regards the info John posted:

gpg --expert --full-gen-key
Please select what kind of key you want:
   (1) RSA and RSA (default)
   (2) DSA and Elgamal
   (3) DSA (sign only)
   (4) RSA (sign only)
   (7) DSA (set your own capabilities)
   (8) RSA (set your own capabilities)
   (9) ECC and ECC
  (10) ECC (sign only)
  (11) ECC (set your own capabilities)
  (13) Existing key
  (14) Existing key from card

in the output there's ECC output should I go with an ECC-style key or
RSA? As regards RSA keysize I typically use 4096.

Thanks.
Dave.


On 3/18/21, Werner Koch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 00:06, David Mehler said:
>
>> My existing GPG certificate is going to expire in less than a month.
>> I'd like to know current best practices for obtaining a new one? In
>
> Do you really want a new one?  Usually it is easier to prolong your key.
> By default a new key has an expire data so that unused keys and those
> with forgotten passphrase will eventually expire.  In general you just run
>
>   gpg --quick-set-expire FINGERPRING EXPIREDATE
>
> Expire dat may be something like 5y for 5 years or an explicit date like
> 2024-12-31.
>
> Here is an example
>
>   $ gpg -K A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
>
>   sec   ed25519 2021-03-15 [SC] [expires: 2023-03-15]
>         A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
>   uid           [ unknown] [hidden email]
>   ssb   cv25519 2021-03-15 [E]
>         989ABB95E888956DBD5D7F66C376233B98457556
>
>   $ gpg --quick-set-expire A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8 4y
>
>
>   $ gpg -K A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
>
>   sec   ed25519 2021-03-15 [SC] [expires: 2025-03-17]
>         A94A6DF8CDF934DB2BF98A46254A558A7E6D52D8
>   uid           [ unknown] [hidden email]
>   ssb   cv25519 2021-03-15 [E]
>         989ABB95E888956DBD5D7F66C376233B98457556
>
>
> Send the public key then to your peers, keyserver, web key directory, or
> wherever.
>
>
> Shalom-Salam,
>
>    Werner
>
>
> --
> Die Gedanken sind frei.  Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.
>

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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

Ángel
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
On 2021-03-18 at 15:15 +0100, john doe via Gnupg-users wrote:
> Reading the URLs given by the OP, I see that the GPG FAQ (1) talks
> about a default of '2048' but in the latest (2.2.17) release of GPG
> it looks like the default is now '3072':
> What keysize do you want? (3072)
>
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> 1)  https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#no_default_of_rsa4096


The FAQis outdated. GnuPG was indeed updated some years ago to use 3072
as the default size for rsa

https://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=909fbca19678e6e36968607e8a2348381da39d8c


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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
> Reading the URLs given by the OP, I see that the GPG FAQ (1) talks about
> a default of '2048' but in the latest (2.2.17) release of GPG it looks
> like the default is now '3072':

Yep.

[puts on maintainer hat]

The last time I suggested revisions to that text there was no community
consensus on what should replace it.  Each proposed replacement met
significant criticism.

My current plan is to wait until GnuPG 2.3 is released and then update
the FAQ to reflect those changes, and hope that by that time there's
community consensus to support the changes.

The FAQ isn't being ignored.  I'd like to do a total overhaul of it.
However, the FAQ isn't meant to be my opinions and rants: it's meant to
be *the community's* voice.  So I'm kind of dependent on the mailing
list for support.

[takes off maintainer hat]

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
> I'd like to know current best practices for obtaining a new one?

This question gets asked so often that it has its own FAQ entry.  Yes,
parts of the FAQ are outdated, but this particular one is very current.

https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#tuning

* You don't need to "tune" GnuPG before using it
* The defaults for key generation are conservative and safe
* Don't overthink things.  :)

My sometimes-snarky (but completely-sincere) opinion on this evergreen
question is, "unless you know what you're doing and why you're doing it,
stick with the defaults."

The other piece of sometimes-snarky (but also completely-sincere) advice
is that a good 90% of the web pages you find that talk about how to
create the "perfect" GnuPG key are absolutely full of it.

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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Ángel
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 01:50, Ángel said:

> The FAQis outdated. GnuPG was indeed updated some years ago to use 3072
> as the default size for rsa

Actually 7 months:

Noteworthy changes in version 2.2.22 (2020-08-27)
-------------------------------------------------

  * gpg: Change the default key algorithm to rsa3072.


But some Linux distributions changed it earlier.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:34, David Mehler said:

> in the output there's ECC output should I go with an ECC-style key or
> RSA? As regards RSA keysize I typically use 4096.

The next default is ECC (ed25519+cv25519) which is supported by most
OpenPGP implementations.  Only if you have a need to communicate with
some niche implementaions you need to use rsa3072.

You may also skip the menu thing and use

  gpg --quick-gen-key [hidden email] future-default


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
> The next default is ECC (ed25519+cv25519) which is supported by most
> OpenPGP implementations.  Only if you have a need to communicate with
> some niche implementaions you need to use rsa3072.

Last I checked, Thunderbird 78 did not support ed25519+cv25519 keys.
That's not a niche implementation.

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

Neal H. Walfield
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 08:33:17 +0100,
Robert J. Hansen via Gnupg-users wrote:
>
> > The next default is ECC (ed25519+cv25519) which is supported by most
> > OpenPGP implementations.  Only if you have a need to communicate with
> > some niche implementaions you need to use rsa3072.
>
> Last I checked, Thunderbird 78 did not support ed25519+cv25519
> keys. That's not a niche implementation.

Thunderbird 78's default OpenPGP implementation is rnp.  According to
the interoperability test suite, rnp is able to use the "Alice" key
from the "OpenPGP Example Keys and Certificates" I-D.

  https://tests.sequoia-pgp.org/#Encrypt-Decrypt_roundtrip_with_key__Alice_
  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bre-openpgp-samples-00#section-2

The "Alice" certificate uses:

  Primary key algorithm: Ed25519
  Subkey algorithm: Curve25519

Neal

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 03:33, Robert J. Hansen said:

> Last I checked, Thunderbird 78 did not support ed25519+cv25519
> keys. That's not a niche implementation.

I did extensive test with Ribose to make sure that RNP (the crypto
engine now used by TB) is compatible with GnuPG.  Thus I wonder why TB
gets things wrong again.

There are also so many regressions in TB new OpenPGP support compared to
the long standing TB+Enigmail OpenPGP support that I wonder come it is
at all possible to send encrypted OpenPGP mails with TB.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
It "does and it doesn't" I have some that were created in Kleopatra and
then imported into Thunderbird 78. As for creating them, no.... You
don't get to choose any options when generating ECC keys.

On 3/19/2021 12:33 AM, Robert J. Hansen via Gnupg-users wrote:

>> The next default is ECC (ed25519+cv25519) which is supported by most
>> OpenPGP implementations.  Only if you have a need to communicate with
>> some niche implementaions you need to use rsa3072.
>
> Last I checked, Thunderbird 78 did not support ed25519+cv25519 keys.
> That's not a niche implementation.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list

It also has issues with signed messages and lists. For example you signed this message but it says "uncertain digital signature".  I don't remember this being an issue in the older TB/Enigmail.

On 3/19/2021 10:42 AM, Werner Koch via Gnupg-users wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 03:33, Robert J. Hansen said:

Last I checked, Thunderbird 78 did not support ed25519+cv25519
keys. That's not a niche implementation.
I did extensive test with Ribose to make sure that RNP (the crypto
engine now used by TB) is compatible with GnuPG.  Thus I wonder why TB
gets things wrong again.

There are also so many regressions in TB new OpenPGP support compared to
the long standing TB+Enigmail OpenPGP support that I wonder come it is
at all possible to send encrypted OpenPGP mails with TB.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


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Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
On Fri 2021-03-19 08:29:12 +0100, Werner Koch via Gnupg-users wrote:
> You may also skip the menu thing and use
>
>   gpg --quick-gen-key [hidden email] future-default

I agree with Werner's recommendation of using --quick-gen-key and
future-default.

If you're going to provide an e-mail address-only User ID, though, i'd
also recommend wrapping it in angle-brackets, as raw e-mail addresses
are still liable to trigger some minor bugs in various pieces of older
OpenPGP tooling.  So that'd be:

    gpg --quick-gen-key '<[hidden email]>' future-default

Using the defaults (or the future defaults, as here) is a good
practice.  Most people shouldn't need anything fancier.

Regards,

        --dkg

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Thunderbird dealing with signed messages and mailing lists [was: Re: Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate]

GnuPG - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
On Fri 2021-03-19 15:30:51 -0700, Mark via Gnupg-users wrote:
> It also has issues with signed messages and lists. For example you
> signed this message but it says "uncertain digital signature".  I don't
> remember this being an issue in the older TB/Enigmail.

Signed messages on mailing lists that modify message bodies (and
headers) in the way that [hidden email] does should *not* show as
a valid digital signature.

See
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-01.html#name-mailing-list-wrapping
for a bit more information on the problem, and
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-01.html#name-exception-mailing-list-foot
for a proposed method for MUAs to responsibly render such a message.

    --dkg

PS fwiw, "uncertain digital signature" probably shouldn't show at all in
   any reasonable end-user-facing MUA unless the user is in some sort of
   special-cased debug mode.  In typical operation, a message either is
   protected by a valid signature or it is not.  Displaying an
   intermediate status like "uncertain" is likely only to cause
   confusion.

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Re: [EXT] Best practices for obtaining a new GPG certificate

Bernhard Reiter-7
In reply to this post by GnuPG - User mailing list
Am Freitag 19 März 2021 08:24:53 schrieb Werner Koch via Gnupg-users:
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 01:50, Ángel said:
> > The FAQis outdated. GnuPG was indeed updated some years ago to use 3072
> > as the default size for rsa
>
> Actually 7 months:
> Noteworthy changes in version 2.2.22 (2020-08-27)
> -------------------------------------------------
>   * gpg: Change the default key algorithm to rsa3072.
> But some Linux distributions changed it earlier.

https://wiki.gnupg.org/LargeKeys is the wiki page to catch some of the
arguments leading to the recommendations. It could use some more updates
for the upcoming future default.


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